You mentioned there were lots of dead ends, and there certainly were. Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter.Welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out their routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. General Stanley McChrystal Mastering Risk: A User's Guide | Brought to you by Kettle & Fire high quality, tasty, and conveniently packaged bone broths; Eight Sleep. CHARLES STANG: Brian, I want to thank you for your time. So I went fully down the rabbit hole. And it seems to me that if any of this is right, that whatever was happening in ancient Greece was a transformative experience for which a lot of thought and preparation went into. What is it about that formula that captures for you the wisdom, the insight that is on offer in this ancient ritual, psychedelic or otherwise? Did the potion at Eleusis change from generation to generation? Not much. Now, Carl Ruck from Boston University, much closer to home, however, took that invitation and tried to pursue this hypothesis. I would love to see these licensed, regulated, retreat centers be done in a way that is medically sound and scientifically rigorous. And again, it survives, I think, because of that state support for the better part of 2,000 years. The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name Perhaps more generally, you could just talk about other traditions around the Mediterranean, North African, or, let's even say Judaism. What's the wine? I see it as-- well, OK, I'd see it as within a minority. It tested positive for the microscopic remains of beer and also ergot, exactly the hypothesis that had been put forward in 1978 by the disgraced professor across town from you, Carl Ruck, who's now 85 years old, by the way. And this is at a time when we're still hunting and gathering. BRIAN MURARESKU: I'm bringing more illumination. I'm going to come back to that idea of proof of concept. And what it has to do with Eleusis or the Greek presence in general, I mean, again, just to say it briefly, is that this was a farmhouse of sorts that was inland, this sanctuary site. I wonder if you're familiar with Wouter Hanegraaff at the University of Amsterdam. I am excited . But in Pompeii, for example, there's the villa of the mysteries, one of these really breathtaking finds that also survived the ravage of Mount Vesuvius. I mean, in the absence of the actual data, that's my biggest question. This book by Brian Muraresku, attempts to answer this question by delving into the history of ancient secret religions dating back thousands of years. In the first half, we'll cover topics ranging from the Eleusinian Mysteries, early Christianity, and the pagan continuity hypothesis to the work of philosopher and psychologist William James. And I want to-- just like you have this hard evidence from Catalonia, then the question is how to interpret it. And there are legitimate scholars out there who say, because John wanted to paint Jesus in the light of Dionysus, present him as the second coming of this pagan God. So Gobekli Tepe, for those who don't know, is this site in southern Turkey on the border with Syria. And I think we get hung up on the jargon. But what I hear from people, including atheists, like Dina Bazer, who participated in these Hopkins NYU trials is that she felt like on her one and only dose of psilocybin that she was bathed in God's love. As a matter of fact, I think it's much more promising and much more fertile for scholarship to suggest that some of the earliest Christians may have availed themselves of a psychedelic sacrament and may have interpreted the Last Supper as some kind of invitation to open psychedelia, that mystical supper as the orthodox call it, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]. You might find it in a cemetery in Mexico. And I guess my biggest question, not necessarily for you, but the psychedelic community, for what it's worth, or those who are interested in this stuff is how do we make this experience sacred? You're not confident that the pope is suddenly going to issue an encyclical. Now that doesn't mean, as Brian was saying, that then suggests that that's the norm Eucharist. But if the original Eucharist were psychedelic, or even if there were significant numbers of early Christians using psychedelics like sacrament, I would expect the representatives of orthodox, institutional Christianity to rail against it. Thank you. And for some reason, I mean, I'd read that two or three times as an undergrad and just glossed over that line. The Tim Ferriss Show - #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin So, I mean, my biggest question behind all of this is, as a good Catholic boy, is the Eucharist. And we had a great chat, a very spirited chat about the mysteries and the psychedelic hypothesis. And let's start with our earliest evidence from the Stone Age and the Bronze Age. The (Mistaken) Conspiracy Theory: In the Late Middle Ages, religious elites created a new, and mistaken, intellectual framework out of Christian heresy and theology concerning demons. Because my biggest question is, and the obvious question of the book is, if this was happening in antiquity, what does that mean for today? His aim when he set out on this journey 12 years ago was to assess the validity of a rather old, but largely discredited hypothesis, namely, that some of the religions of the ancient Mediterranean, perhaps including Christianity, used a psychedelic sacrament to induce mystical experiences at the border of life and death, and that these psychedelic rituals were just the tip of the iceberg, signs of an even more ancient and pervasive religious practice going back many thousands of years. Brian is the author of a remarkable new book that has garnered a lot of attention and has sold a great many copies. That is my dog Xena. CHARLES STANG: OK, great. And that kind of invisible religion with no name, although brutally suppressed, managed to survive in Europe for many centuries and could potentially be revived today. Who were the Saints? These Native American church and the UDV, both some syncretic form of Christianity. And Ruck, and you following Ruck, make much of this, suggesting maybe the Gnostics are pharmacologists of some kind. But with what were they mixed, and to what effect? And if it only occurs in John, the big question is why. In the same place in and around Pompeii, this is where Christianity is really finding its roots. Because very briefly, I think Brian and others have made a very strong case that these things-- this was a biotechnology that was available in the ancient world. Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and - Podchaser And then at some point they go inland. But the point being, the religion of brewing seems to pop up at the very beginning of civilization itself, or the very beginning of monumental engineering at this world's first sanctuary. Do the drugs, Dr. Stang? If beer was there that long ago, what kind of beer was it? She found the remains of dog sacrifice, which is super interesting. I mean, shouldn't everybody, shouldn't every Christian be wondering what kind of wine was on that table, or the tables of the earliest Christians? And not least because if I were to do it, I'd like to do so in a deeply sacred ritual. 18.3C: Continuity Theory - Social Sci LibreTexts And what you're referring to is-- and how I begin the book is this beautiful Greek phrase, [SPEAKING GREEK]. I just sense a great deal of structure and thoughtfulness going into this experience. So I was obsessed with this stuff from the moment I picked up an article in The Economist called the God Pill back in 2007. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . he goes out on a limb and says that black nightshade actually causes [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which is not unpleasant visions, i.e. So there's a whole slew of sites I want to test there. Which turns out, it may be they were. Then there's what were the earliest Christians doing with the Eucharist. And I think it's very important to be very honest with the reader and the audience about what we know and what we don't. Which, again, what I see are small groups of people getting together to commune with the dead. Even a little bit before Gobekli Tepe, there was another site unearthed relatively recently in Israel, at the Rakefet cave. Now is there any evidence for psychedelic use in ancient Egypt, and if not, do you have any theory as to why that's silent? I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. Not just in Italy, but as kind of the headquarters for the Mediterranean. The Tim Ferriss Show | iHeart And if it's one thing Catholicism does very, very well, it's contemplative mysticism. In this episode, Brian C. Muraresku, who holds a degree from Brown University in Latin, Greek and Sanskrit, joins Breht to discuss his fascinating book "The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name", a groundbreaking dive into the use of hallucinogens in ancient Greece, the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, the role of the Eucharist in early Christianity, the . But let me say at the outset that it is remarkably learned, full of great historical and philological detail. And in the ancient world, wine was routinely referred to as a [SPEAKING GREEK], which is the Greek word for drug. So the big question is, what kind of drug was this, if it was a drug? It was it was barley, water, and something else. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More But it's not an ingested psychedelic. From about 1500 BC to the fourth century AD, it calls to the best and brightest of not just Athens but also Rome. The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More (#646) - The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss 3 Annual "Best of" Apple Podcasts 900+ Million episodes downloaded The Tim Ferriss Show Podcast | Free Listening on Podbean App How does, in other words, how does religion sit with science? Examine the pros and cons of the continuity theory of aging, specifically in terms of how it neglects to consider social institutions or chronically ill adults. Not in every single case, obviously. And what we know about the wine of the time is that it was prized amongst other things not for its alcoholic content, but for its ability to induce madness. According to Muraresku, this work, which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? And when you speak in that way, what I hear you saying is there is something going on. So we're going down parallel paths here, and I feel we're caught between FDA-approved therapeutics and RFRA-protected sacraments, RFRA, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, or what becomes of these kinds of substances in any kind of legal format-- which they're not legal at the moment, some would argue. The divine personage in whom this cult centered was the Magna Mater Deum who was conceived as the source of all life as well as the personification of all the powers of nature.\[Footnote:] Willoughby, Pagan Regeneration, p. 114.\ 7 She was the "Great Mother" not only "of all the gods," but of all men" as well. CHARLES STANG: Well, Mr, Muraresku, you are hedging your bets here in a way that you do not necessarily hedge your bets in the book. The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name And I don't know if there's other examples of such things. CHARLES STANG: OK. In May of last year, researchers published what they believe is the first archaeochemical data for the use of psychoactive drugs in some form of early Judaism. I expect we will find it. Brian's thesis, that of the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, was explored by Alexander Hislop in his "The Two Babylons", 1853, as a Protestant treatise in the spirit of Martin Luther as Alexander too interjects the Elusinian Mysteries. And we know from the record that [SPEAKING GREEK] is described as being so crowded with gods that they were easier to find than men. And so in the epilogue, I say we simply do not know the relationship between this site in Spain and Eleusis, nor do we know what was happening at-- it doesn't automatically mean that Eleusis was a psychedelic rite. In this hypothesis, both widely accepted and widely criticized,11 'American' was synonymous with 'North American'. And she talks about kind of being born again, another promise from John's gospel. The Continuity Hypothesis was put forward by John Bowlby (1953) as a critical effect of attachments in his development of Attachment Theory. Copyright 2023 The President and Fellows of Harvard College, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name. The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name Amazon.com: Customer reviews: The Immortality Key: The Secret History Nage ?] There aren't any churches or basilicas, right, in the first three centuries, in this era we're calling paleo-Christianity. Now, that date is obviously very suggestive because that's precisely the time the Christians were establishing a beachhead in Rome. Up until that point I really had very little knowledge of psychedelics, personal or literary or otherwise. With more than 35 years of experience in the field of Education dedicated to help students, teachers and administrators in both public and private institutions at school, undergraduate and graduate level. Newsweek calls him 'the world's best human guinea pig,' and The New York Times calls him 'a cross between Jack Welch and a Buddhist monk.' In this show, he deconstructs world-class performers from eclectic areas (investing, chess, pro sports, etc . Thank you for that. Others find it in different ways, but the common denominator seems to be one of these really well-curated near-death experiences. Read more 37 people found this helpful Helpful Report abuse Tfsiebs So much research! CHARLES STANG: Thank you, Brian. You become one with Christ by drinking that. And I want to say to those who are still assembled here that I'm terribly sorry that we can't get to all your questions. There he is. An Exploration of Religion: An Interview with Brian Muraresku [1] According to this theory, older adults try to maintain this continuity of lifestyle by adapting strategies that are connected to their past experiences. What's different about the Dionysian mysteries, and what evidence, direct or indirect, do we have about the wine of Dionysus being psychedelic? I was satisfied with I give Brian Muraresku an "A" for enthusiasm, but I gave his book 2 stars. And there were moments when the sunlight would just break through. Before the church banned their use, early Christians used - Substack And that's not how it works today, and I don't think that's how it works in antiquity. It seems entirely believable to me that we have a potion maker active near Pompeii. If they've been doing this, as you suggest, for 2,000 years, nearly, what makes you think that a few ancient historians are going to turn that aircraft carrier around? I'd never thought before about how Christianity developed as an organized religion in the centuries after Jesus' murder. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving And she happened to find it on psilocybin. The universality of frontiers, however, made the hypothesis readily extendable to other parts of the globe. I opened the speculation, Dr. Stang, that the Holy Grail itself could have been some kind of spiked concoction. I think it's important you have made a distinction between what was Jesus doing at the Last Supper, as if we could ever find out. Brian C. Muraresku - Priory Of Sion BRIAN MURARESKU: It just happens to show up. So thank you, all who have hung with us. The Immortality Key - David Bookstaber I mean, what-- my big question is, what can we say about the Eucharist-- and maybe it's just my weird lens, but what can we say about it definitively in the absence of the archaeochemstry or the archaeobotany? I don't know why it's happening now, but we're finally taking a look. CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF WORLD RELIGIONS, Harvard Divinity School42 Francis Avenue, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138 617.495.4495, my.hds |Harvard Divinity School |Harvard University |Privacy |Accessibility |Digital Accessibility | Trademark Notice |Reporting Copyright Infringements. We know that at the time of Jesus, before, during, and after, there were recipes floating around. Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and - TopPodcast Ep #1 Show Notes | Brian Muraresku: Psychedelics, Civilization It's arguably not the case in the third century. But what we do know is that their sacrament was wine and we know a bit more about the wine of antiquity, ancient Greek wine, than we can piece together from these nocturnal celebrations. Not because it's not there, because it hasn't been tested. Richard Evans Schultes and the Search for Ayahuasca 17 days ago Plants of the Gods: S3E10. Liked by Samuel Zuschlag. CHARLES STANG: OK. Those religions featured psychedelic beer and ceremonies lead by women . So what I think we have here in this ergtotized beer drink from Catalonia, Spain, and in this weird witch's brew from 79 AD in Pompeii, I describe it, until I see evidence otherwise, as some of the very first heart scientific data for the actual existence of actual spiked wine in classical antiquity, which I think is a really big point. Here is how I propose we are to proceed. And if the latter, do you think there's a good chance that religions will adopt psychedelics back into their rituals?". He was greatly influenced by Sigmund Freud (1940) who viewed an infant's first relationship - usually with the mother - as "the prototype of all later love-relations". I'm not sure where it falls. So here's a question for you. CHARLES STANG: We're often in this situation where we're trying to extrapolate from evidence from Egypt, to see is Egypt the norm or is it the exception? I can't imagine that there were no Christians that availed themselves of this biotechnology, and I can't imagine-- it's entirely plausible to me that they would mix this biotechnology with the Eucharist. So I present this as proof of concept, and I heavily rely on the Gospel of John and the data from Italy because that's what was there. There's evidence of the mysteries of Dionysus before, during, and after the life of Jesus, it's worth pointing out. So back in 2012, archaeologists and chemists were scraping some of these giant limestone troughs, and out pops calcium oxalate, which is one of these biomarkers for the fermentation of brewing. And I write, at the very end of the book, I hope that they'd be proud of this investigation. I mean, I think the book makes it clear. The same Rome that circumstantially shows up, and south of Rome, where Constantine would build his basilicas in Naples and Capua later on. So when Hippolytus is calling out the Marcosians, and specifically women, consecrating this alternative Eucharist in their alternative proto-mass, he uses the Greek word-- and we've talked about this before-- but he uses the Greek word [SPEAKING GREEK] seven times in a row, by the way, without specifying which drugs he's referring to. So the Eastern Aegean. You may have already noticed one such question-- not too hard. You also find a Greek hearth inside this sanctuary. I also sense another narrative in your book, and one you've flagged for us, maybe about 10 minutes ago, when you said that the book is a proof of concept. Like the wedding at Cana, which my synopsis of that event is a drunkard getting a bunch of drunk people even more drunk. Mona Sobhani, PhD Retweeted. Jerry Brown wrote a good review that should be read to put the book in its proper place. It's funny to see that some of the first basilicas outside Rome are popping up here, and in and around Pompeii. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . I think the wine certainly does. And apparently, the book is on order, so I can't speak to this directly, but the ancient Greek text that preserves this liturgy also preserves the formula, the ingredients of the eye ointment. The Immortality Key - Book Review and Discussion - Were early - Reddit CHARLES STANG: So it may be worth mentioning, for those who are attending who haven't read the book, that you asked, who I can't remember her name, the woman who is in charge of the Eleusis site, whether some of the ritual vessels could be tested, only to discover-- tested for the remains of whatever they held, only to learn that those vessels had been cleaned and that no more vessels were going to be unearthed. And there were probably other Eleusises like that to the east. The Continuity Hypothesis of Dreams: A More Balanced Account And to be quite honest, I'd never studied the ancient Greeks in Spain. Amongst all the mystery religions, Eleusis survives. Love potions, love charms, they're very common in the ancient. CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. Here's the proof of concept. And I wonder whether the former narrative serves the interests of the latter. So, like, they're wonderstruck, or awestruck by their libations and their incense. Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. We see lots of descriptions of this in the mystical literature with which you're very familiar. So I think it's really interesting details here worth following up on. And what does this earliest history tell us about the earliest evidence for an ancient psychedelic religion? And you suspect, therefore, that it might be a placebo, and you want the real thing. This time, tonight I'll say that it's just not my time yet. That event is already up on our website and open for registration. Because what tends to happen in those experiences is a death and rebirth. Which is a very weird thing today. But I want to ask you to reflect on the broader narrative that you're painting, because I've heard you speak in two ways about the significance of this work. And so even within the New Testament you see little hints and clues that there was no such thing as only ordinary table wine. President and CEO, First Southeast Financial Corp and First Federal Savings and Loan Director, Carolina First Bank and The South Financial Group We have plays like the Bacchi from Euripides, where we can piece together some of this. What's significant about these features for our piecing together the ancient religion with no name? That is about the future rather than the ancient history. The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in And inside that beer was all kinds of vegetable matter, like wheat, oats, and sedge and lily and flax and various legumes. Thank you, sir. And I'm not even sure what that piece looks like or how big it is. The Immortality Key, The Secret History of the Religion With No Name. Church of the Saints Faustina and Liberata, view from the outside with the entrance enclosure, at "Sante" place, Capo di Ponte (Italy). Things like fasting and sleep deprivation and tattooing and scarification and, et cetera, et cetera. CHARLES STANG: OK. And that's a question equally for ancient historians and for contemporary seekers and/or good Catholics. The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark This 'pagan continuity hypothesis' with a psychedelic twist is now backed up by biochemistry and agrochemistry and tons of historical research, exposing our forgotten history. Tim Ferriss Show #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Psychedelics, and More. We still have almost 700 with us. And so for me, this was a hunt through the catacombs and archives and libraries, doing my sweet-talking, and trying to figure out what was behind some of those locked doors. And why, if you're right that the church has succeeded in suppressing a psychedelic sacrament and has been peddling instead, what you call a placebo, and that it has exercised a monstrous campaign of persecution against plant medicine and the women who have kept its knowledge alive, why are you still attached to this tradition?
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